Oxford autosolo 26apr

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cartledge_uk
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Oxford autosolo 26apr

Post by cartledge_uk » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:33 am

There are still some spaces on this.

There are a few Fdmc members entered already.


http://www.oxfordmotorclub.co.uk/autosolo/

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Re: Oxford autosolo 26apr

Post by PeteM » Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:31 am

Oxford have posted a sample course layout and description of the site on their website - looks like a good choice of event - they still need more entries to run - good access from the M40

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Re: Oxford autosolo 26apr

Post by Kraigy » Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:37 pm

PeteM wrote:Oxford have posted a sample course layout and description of the site on their website - looks like a good choice of event - they still need more entries to run - good access from the M40
Shouldnt there be slaloms? Looks a bit simple? :o
I imagine it'd be a different kettle of fish when we get there though as ive not been dissapointed with a oxford solo yet

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Re: Oxford autosolo 26apr

Post by cartledge_uk » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:56 am

I must admit, I absolutely loved the test's. Very fast!

Some of the lower cars grounded out on some of the drainage channels, which was unfortunate but a good day!

Its the first solo ive done for a while, is it normal for a bunch of the brtda lot to moan and argue with the organisers about moving a cone 3meters to avoid gravel and divits? Its the same for everyone, just drive it. If you don't like them, drive round!

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Re: Oxford autosolo 26apr

Post by PeteM » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:44 am

Sadly it is normal for the BTRDA to consider themselves as the owners of the sport by knowing what is best for everyone! - interesting though is they do not organise/offer anything themselves and feel we should be grateful to invite them to our events.

Those of you who where not there yesterday missed an awesome event - fast, flowing and straight forward to follow - looking forward to October when they will ensure the gullies are avoided.

FDMC events however still provide the best courses (no need for numbers as well)

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Re: Oxford autosolo 26apr

Post by alanw » Fri May 01, 2015 9:50 am

But Pete "the BTRDA lot" were advising on changing the course to avoid the most severe of the undulations. The drainage channels were a surprise to Oxford MC on how many cars were grounding out, so why not change things to avoid damaging cars? People were threatening to withdraw (two did - Elise (mechanical but REALLY bottoming out) and Ian Harrison in the Zero (who stayed to marshal)) but everyone else stayed and competed with the changes to the route. Without the changes they would have left.

If there was any moaning it was amongst those with low slung cars. I was lending my C spanners out so people could raise their cars!

It's these sort of route changes and thoughts which will make the event at Finmere later in the year suit everyone and (hopefully) avoid the ground clearance issues which occurred.

Mike Biss was at the core of the "moaning" and his event at North Weald a few weeks ago was praised on this forum.

So Pete, I consider that you're totally wrong, The "moaning BTRDA" at Finmere are probably the most experienced group of Autosolo organisers and competitors in the country so I'd be tempted to listen to their views as it's in the interests of everyone, not for individual benefit.

And as for the no numbered cones at FDMC events, as I said to you on Sunday, that's fine if you get the course right. I don't believe I look at the numbers when driving. However as Autosolos are meant to be an entry level sport they should be "user friendly". On last year's FDMC event (the BTRDA round) I've never seen so many wrong tests, with some drivers going not just going the wrong side of cones but entering gates from the wrong side. But the error couldn't be clearly communicated where drivers had gone wrong, just "you went wrong in area C", not "you went the wrong side of code 17". As a result I saw people get tests wrong again and again. Telling them exactly where they went wrong has to help them and make them want to come back again. Getting multiple wrong tests must be very depressing.

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Re: Oxford autosolo 26apr

Post by cartledge_uk » Sat May 02, 2015 6:55 am

alanw wrote:But Pete "the BTRDA lot" were advising on changing the course to avoid the most severe of the undulations. The drainage channels were a surprise to Oxford MC on how many cars were grounding out, so why not change things to avoid damaging cars? People were threatening to withdraw (two did - Elise (mechanical but REALLY bottoming out) and Ian Harrison in the Zero (who stayed to marshal)) but everyone else stayed and competed with the changes to the route. Without the changes they would have left.

I'm sorry but that wasn't the case at all, no changes were made because of the drainage channels

For example, on the last test they moved one of the cones in the flatter (smaller side) to avoid a patch of gravel and flatten the tightness of a corner.

Most of the other cones they were moving were to avoid patches of gravel etc, everyone walked the course, no-one else had an issue with the small divits etc. on one test, they moved some cones after everyone had walked it, but they hadn't. no notice was made that the course had changed. Is that still fair? I noticed this, so specifically walked the course after them.

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Re: Oxford autosolo 26apr

Post by alanw » Sat May 02, 2015 9:40 am

What? Were we at the same event?

Were you in the "moaning group" walking round the test with the organisers so you heard the discussions about trying to avoid people damaging their cars on the undulations? Did you see the group of around a dozen people, most in high viz clothing, made up of organisers and competitors, walking round the last test discussing the route? Most competitors stayed behind this group as the test was obviously still being put together on the least damaging route. Did you hear the comment from the organisers at the start of the awards presentation regarding the steep learning curve they'd gone through during the day around the undulations and how they'd work around them in October? Didn't you hear a large number of drivers raising concerns about bottoming out? Didn't you cringe when you heard cars bottoming out so badly - the Elise, Zero and I believe every MX5? Didn't you hear how many people were planning to go home if the route didn't change? Have you spoken to any of the "moaners" after the event? Ask the Walsh brothers about what was going on - they were about to leave but stayed due to the changes in the course. They love gravel but the undulations were damaging their car, even after we raised their MX5 on the coilovers. Please talk to Mike Biss and he'll tell you the reality of the situation. Talk to the organisers and you'll find that reality is very different from your viewpoint.

The changes were all about preventing damage to cars through the undulations while maintaining a flowing course. Nothing wrong with that, surely a position which should be supported at every event.

I'm not aware of any cones changing after the majority walked the course, I had no issue. Did you walk ahead of the organisers and "moaning" group who were still setting the course? I know that everyone is very aware of cones changing after everyone walked the course - there were issues at Chepstow when somebody took it upon themselves to change the cones during the Drivers' Briefing, literally just before we were about to start driving. That area is jumped on very rapidly.

The issues weren't with the narrow drainage channels in the smaller section of the venue, but the wider undulations in the larger area. These undulations were actually wide drainage channels so maybe terminology is causing the issue. Yes, cones were moved in the smaller area but they made the course more flowing so no issue there. I didn't notice any divots or gravel in the smaller area, just a little mud being pulled out of a narrow drainage channel near cones 9 and 10. Have you ever been to Kemble? There's no complaints from exactly the same "BTRDA moaners" about the gravel, broken concrete and the small steps between surfaces there.

And why all these digs at BTRDA? They organise national championships and do a lot more to support grass roots motorsport. Like the majority of sports, not just motorsport, organisation of events comes down to the local clubs with local knowledge with another organisation running the overall championship. As discussed, it doesn't mean there's no organisational skills within the BTRDA championships, really quite the opposite with the most skilled competing and involved at this level.

Must go to help set up at Rushmoor.

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Re: Oxford autosolo 26apr

Post by PeteM » Mon May 04, 2015 10:35 am

All good points - however 'National Championships' are run by the MSA or in the case of Classic Trials by an association of clubs (there may be others) - the BTRDA championship is a club championship for club members only, as a Farnborough member I am excluded - yes and some members are excellent organisers e.g. Mike Biss

Please be aware that venues are becoming hard to come by and getting very expensive - sensitivity is required when challenging organisers as they too are becoming thin on the ground (often age related!)

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Re: Oxford autosolo 26apr

Post by cartledge_uk » Mon May 04, 2015 2:03 pm

alanw wrote: The issues weren't with the narrow drainage channels in the smaller section of the venue, but the wider undulations in the larger area.
I'm not going to dignify most of your comments with a response, but your comment above is a nice point which proves my comments exactly:

On the last test, where it was swapped to go inside a cone around 5/6 (cant remember exactly) to create a tight hairpin in the corner. Why was the cone moved to make it easier? the cone was a good 3m off the white cone mark? You said yourself there were no issues in this area, so why was the cone moved?


As a final thought, I really enjoyed finmere, and despite grounding out myself (as I'm lower than most mx5's), I really didn't have an issue with any of the tests

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Re: Oxford autosolo 26apr

Post by alanw » Tue May 05, 2015 9:13 am

Well said Pete, venues and organisers are hard to come by and all should be encouraged and supported in every way. If there's a venue with a few issues let's all work around the issues to make that venue viable. The Bullnose Endurance Rally won't be running this year due to lack of organisational person power in Oxford MC. The Bullnose used a lot more of Finmere as one of the Selectifs on the Bullnose last year, but it was still very smooth compared to other Endurance Selectifs I've driven. Finmere could be a great venue for a Targa rally. It used to be a great single venue rally site.

Anyway, back to solos. You're right Pete, most National Champs are organised by the MSA, but there are other National Champs where you have to be a member of the organising club. The Endurance Road Rally Championship (to give it its full name) is a National Championship organised by Salisbury and Shaftesbury MC, registering for the Championship also qualifies you as a member. Same as for BTRDA Autosolo - a National Championship but you have to be a member of BTRDA. All at http://www.btrda.com/AutoSolo// including leaning on the expertise of local Clubs to run events. I've been a member of many Clubs over the years to access their events, championships and regional championships. I'm not as active on events as in my stage rallying days, but I'm still a member of Oxford MC, Chelmsford MC, CSMA and BTRDA to get access to their events/championships. Then in most cases I also need at least a National B licence as well.

Cartledge_uk, I don't know you or what car you drive, but I MUST have seen you on events. All my statements were true, please ask others, why would I make anything up? I'm very keen to support Oxford MC in whatever way possible. Rerouting tests to avoid damaging cars and ensure people come back has to be a good thing. Yes, cone 6 was moved as per the map for the last two tests so we had to go inside the cone. I can't remember any gravel or a rough surface at that area or whether the cone was moved between tests 3 and 4, I didn't notice anything, there were no drainage channels in that area that I can remember. I thought you might be referring to cones 9 and 10 which were moved a little with a small drainage channel on the outside.The main issues as stated were in the larger area. As you said you were bottoming out, didn't you notice how much smoother the last test was?

No issues, come over and say hi on the next event, I'm in the blue green Micra. I'll be out on the 60 & Worces solo at Throckmorton then the Abingdon solo with my son, all ready for the beer tent and comedian. No CSMA grass autotest on the Sunday so we can marshal on the stage event as well.

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